 Note to pastors and youth ministers who choose to live in denial:
the following stats do not apply to YOU and YOUR church, only to other churches and other youth groups that are not as spiritual, strategic, relevant, cool, committed or emerging as you are.The American church loses 70% of its 18 and 22 year olds. SEVENTY PER CENT! That’s scary. Think about your youth group - the teens in your church and in your family - by the time they are 22 years old - 70% will no longer go to church. There’s a lot of talk about reaching the “un-churched” – but what about the “de-churched” who walked away from the church of their parents? Thousands of young people used to go attend church, but not any more. Why? According to research in a soon to be released book by Thom S Rainer (the Simple Church dude) and Sam Rainer III (son of Simple Church dude), here are the top 10 reasons young Americans quit church. 10. I was only going to church to please others. 9 I want to spend more time with my friends. 8. I disagreed with the church’s stance on political or social issues. 7. I didn’t feel connected with the people in my church. 6. I became too busy. 5. I moved too far away. 4. My work responsibilities prevented me from attending. 3. I started college and stopped church. 2. Church members seemed too judgmental or hypocritical. 1. I simply wanted a break from church. The #1 reason young Americans quit church is tragic – “I wanted a break from church.” But why do they want a break? I think maybe #2 causes #1. Did you ever dropout? Why? Why did you go back? What about other nations, why do non-Americans dropout?  | wow. 70%! God help us build His church where young people would love to be in. |
 | A church has no right to make anything a condition of membership which Christ has not made a condition of salvation.
-A.A. Hodge |
 | Thanks for sharing this Pastor Steve. I think all of us, especially those of us working with youth, need some self evaluation to find ways to help these young people develop a relationship with Jesus. |
| I did dropout...in my college years. But the ultimate professor, teacher, Rabbi and my Redeemer---Jesus Christ is the only way, the truth and the life. That's why I came back. |
 | Nobody mentioned knowing or lack of knowing anything about Christ. At 18 years old from L.A., all ten reasons listed above were literally my own reasons for dropping out but they were all just excuses. The main reason is because I never had my own personal "born again" experience and the church was not conducive for me to ever have that experience. Even moving away seemed like a subconscious decision to get away from a choking religion. I went back after 13 years of failures and crisis after crisis until I finally let go of trying to control my own destiny and turned to God to take the wheel. |
 | davidabc13 wrote on Jul 22, '08, edited on Jul 22, '08 i think another factor we must carefully examine is the motive for why people come to church. at the risk of rocking the boat, here's my two cents on the issue:
are they coming because of the programs, the gimiks, the cool and funny preachings, the flashing lights... or are they coming for Jesus?
as i see it, we have two options:
we can focus on the numbers which will lead us to study starbucks, mcdonalds, and other power houses of the world. this concerns me because the Holy Writ is bereft of any instance wherein the apostles were concerned with numerical growth or strategy. another reason for concern is the logic that i don't understand: why are we getting tips from the world to grow a church that is not of this world? i've heard it said that we are to make the unchurched feel like they never stepped into a church so that the transition is easier. why do we want the church, which is called to not be like the world, to become more like the world?
OR we can focus on what the apostles focused on: hunger for the Word, love for Christ, love for the church, incarnational living, service, desire to be more like Christ... the epistles we read in the Bible were, when the churches received them, read to everyone. in other words, these epistles were actually the preachings that they had. if you notice, the epistles center on three things: Jesus, the Gospel, and doctrine. today, are our preachings centered on Jesus, the Gospel, and doctrine? or are they centered on several points that have nothing to do with Jesus, a bunch of jokes, a few videos, funny illustrations, and other gimiks that desperately try to keep the attention of the members?
Jesus told the Pharisees that ALL of Scripture pointed to Him. they eagerly studied the Scriptures but missed Jesus. therefore, any preaching today, no matter how emotional, inspiring,practical, applicable, relevant, or encouraging, IS A WRONG PREACHING if it does not point to Jesus. here's another question we must ask ourselves: in our preachings, (is Jesus the end or simply a means to an end?) |
 | being a youth leader...
number 2 cud be really a strong reason why one wud stop attending church...
hey..its hard when everyone is looking at u...ud get da feeling dat u ain't gud enuf or not welcome to go to church anymore..but hey its not the people hu r the reason y u go to church..ur not there to please them..u r there for GOD and only GOD..
hahaha. :D |
 | I wonder if the same statistics applies to the Philippine setting. Scary. |
 | I wonder what number would the reasons: "Well, I went out off the church because I really wasn't of it.", or "I'm not saved." be.
@David:
Well, you know David, you're just being too idealistic and close minded. Times are changing now. All those stuff might have worked in the past (for more than 1900 years), but hey, we just suddenly got smarter and cooler than those dead people. We need to be relevant to the people so they can have a "relationship with Christ". (well actually everyone already has a relationship with Christ. The only question is if it's in wrath or love.)
Besides, we wouldn't want to scare people away by really being Biblical. It's really up to us to convince people to want to choose Christ, and so far, the gimmicks work.[/satire] |
 | people love Jesus but hate the church |
| davidabc13 wrote on Jul 22, '08, edited on Jul 22, '08  people love Jesus but hate the church  that leads to the conclusion that people don't really love Jesus after all.
1 John chapter 2.
Matthew 7: 22. |
| people love Jesus but hate the church. That scares me. |
 | the pinoy mindset could be a little different where most of us where trained from young to go to church even if we never saw the real purpose of it. sort of automatic... sunday equals church day |
 | i think another factor we must carefully examine is the motive for why people come to church. at the risk of rocking the boat, here's my two cents on the issue:
are they coming because of the programs, the gimiks, the cool and funny preachings, the flashing lights... or are they coming for Jesus?
as i see it, we have two options:
we can focus on the numbers which will lead us to study starbucks, mcdonalds, and other power houses of the world. this concerns me because the Holy Writ is bereft of any instance wherein the apostles were concerned with numerical growth or strategy. another reason for concern is the logic that i don't understand: why are we getting tips from the world to grow a church that is not of this world? i've heard it said that we are to make the unchurched feel like they never stepped into a church so that the transition is easier. why do we want the church, which is called to not be like the world, to become more like the world?
OR we can focus on what the apostles focused on: hunger for the Word, love for Christ, love for the church, incarnational living, service, desire to be more like Christ... the epistles we read in the Bible were, when the churches received them, read to everyone. in other words, these epistles were actually the preachings that they had. if you notice, the epistles center on three things: Jesus, the Gospel, and doctrine. today, are our preachings centered on Jesus, the Gospel, and doctrine? or are they centered on several points that have nothing to do with Jesus, a bunch of jokes, a few videos, funny illustrations, and other gimiks that desperately try to keep the attention of the members?
Jesus told the Pharisees that ALL of Scripture pointed to Him. they eagerly studied the Scriptures but missed Jesus. therefore, any preaching today, no matter how emotional, inspiring, or encouraging, IS A WRONG PREACHING if it does not point to Jesus. here's another question we must ask ourselves: in our preachings, (is Jesus the end or simply a means to an end?) yup...yup... i do agree with your point...
I hope we see ourselves seeking and pleasing God more than growing a church yet its members experience defeated lives...
a time of evaluation for us in a way... |
| davidabc13 wrote on Jul 22, '08, edited on Jul 22, '08 let's rephrase the question. from "why did you leave church?" let's ask "why did you not stay?"
huge difference, methinks, because to the second question some may answer "because the church offered exactly the same things that the world offers: success, financial freedom, promotion, significance, breakthrough, victory over bad habits... doesn't the church watch Oprah??"
instead of trying to do better than the world in terms of what the world already offers, why not offer the one thing that the world does NOT and CAN NOT offer? Eternal Life.
question:
when was the last time that you heard the Gospel fully preached from the pulpit? not an altar call, not an offer to pray for salvation for people, but the Gospel itself. i'm talking about a preaching on the Cross of Christ, our sin, our destination without the work of Christ, and our destination because of Christ's blood, the judgment to come, the love that saves us from that judgment, and what it means to be a Christian: counting the cost, the doctrine of assurance of salvation, and how we as Christians are to die to ourselves everyday?
i remember in one of the conferences, ptr Steve talked about his experience as a young man when he learned that the only question to be asked at the end of the day is whether or not we are pleasing Christ. that message is so stuck in my head. am i pleasing Christ? or am i trying to please the crowd? i'm no pastor, but i know that it's a struggle we face as church leaders. there is that pressure we get when asked "how's the church?" our automatic answer is a numerical growth type of answer. i wonder what would happen if someone asked me how the church is and i would say "well, not really growing in number but the people love their Bibles, love Jesus, are becoming more generous, more service-oriented, and happen to really crave for godly fellowship." would my inquirer be more excited or would he look down on the church i'm referring to? it seems as though numerical growth has become the standard of measure for church success these days. |
 | I agree with no.2 causes no.1 |
| in a buddhist context in Thailand the top three reasons why young people stay in church 3. parents became christians 2. church is fun 1. they really experienced God and are hungry for more |
| people leave church: no encounter with Jesus, no relationships built, offense, sin |
 | whizkidd17 wrote on Jul 22, '08, edited on Jul 22, '08 that leads to the conclusion that people don't really love Jesus after all. i personally value the church! i recognize its importance being in a spiritual family. But rather than passing judgment on people who are turned off by the church, we should ask why are we as a church drive people away from the church. this shouldn't be the case. remember that jesus attracted people, regardless of whether their motives are free food or not. his compassion goes out to them. hopefully, his preaching lands to good soil. (he still recognizes that there are those who come which are considered bad soils. nevertheless, people enjoy hanging out with him). they are not turned off.
going back, we should ask ourselves why we as a church turn people off. are we being too judgmental? do we hyper-spiritualize things that we are no longer in touch with the practical realities and needs of the people who are in need of His provision and grace? are we too imposing that we get less gracious than Jesus himself.
It's really an alarming concern. I meet a lot of people here who profess they are Christians here in the US but they don't want to belong to a church. They don't want to commit. Yeah, that's not how God's designed it to be but saying this that they don't love Jesus RIGHT AWAY is wrong.
Individually when our relationship with others isn't doing right, wouldn't it be right to assess ourselves before labeling others? The same way as a church, shouldn't we be asking ourselves what we are doing wrong instead of just passing judgment.
I love the church despite its imperfection. I get turned off with it sometimes. I know each church has its flaws. I know we work on those and in the process of doing such, it is just wise to assess ourselves. What are we doing right? What are we doing wrong? Are we drawing people to Christ? Are we driving them away? Are we acting like Pharisees? Even in very subtle ways?
Great blog by the way, Pastor Steve. |
| good insights there bro! "shouldn't we be asking ourselves what we are doing wrong instead of passing judgment?" good question! :D |
 | Do we as pastors try and keep people hooked on what is outside their souls? Are we a part of these problems? Other people, other things, our entertainment value -- but how about spiritual growth? Do we really get to it, or do we skirt getting to the heart of things because it will inflame the investors. Been there and seen it up close and personal. So do blame ourselves, -- no do we repent and change our ways as pastors? |
 | malousemail wrote on Jul 23, '08, edited on Jul 23, '08 I would rather people quit church than to have church quit.
Church is all about relationships - first with God, then with others. I guess that is why Jesus says the greatest commandment is to LOVE GOD, and the second is LOVE OTHERS as yourself.
Do we? |
| This also means we really need to prepare our Youth early... Kid's Ministry is connected here.. if we prepare and ready them early, they will have better chances of surviving the pressures of the Youth, then as Adults. Let's pray for the Kids, the Youth.. and for everyone. |
| here's a comment on books we read on church strategies:
do these books pattern their insights on worldly standards, then look for a verse that justifies the strategy, then say "hey see? it's biblical!"
or do they read the Scriptures, then say "hey, here's how to do things biblically!" and THEN the book is written?
because i read some books on church growth and church strategies and more often than not, i felt as if the book was using the verses it quoted to justify the worldly-patterned strategy rather than taking its strategy from the Scriptures directly. more testimonies were on the coffee shop trends and the fastfood chains than the careful exegesis of Scriptures.
numerical growth will not always yield spiritual maturity.
spiritual maturity will ALWAYS yield numerical growth.
... at least this is the pattern i see in Scripture.
unfortunately, the pattern we see today is very different:
we strive and strive and strive to use strategies and gimmiks to get the numbers to go up, along the way doing things that MAY compromise the Gospel and the integrity of Scripture, then fight with all our might to make sure people stay in church. so we do a kind of "clown act" and make the church feel like a party to keep people interested, then we wonder why people are not committed, not interested in the Bible, not giving financially... of course, there are those faithful people who love God and truly desire spiritual growth... but are they the norm? or the exception to the norm? are these faithful believers the majority? or are they the sad and struggling minority?
as church leaders, we are indeed happy when there are non-believers in church. but when the non-believers outnumber the believers, something is obviously wrong because the church is supposedly to minister to the believers first, internally, before it ministers to non-believers externally. when non-believers are the majority, the worship service becomes more like a bridge event than a service. we are then forced to feed the unfed rather than equipping the saints to do the feeding outside the worship service... unless of course somebody could point me to any place in Scripture that teaches that the main purpose of church is the latter.
oh well... i think i've rocked the boat enough already. |
| @malousemail
yep, and i thank God for Romans 8:28 indeed.
i just hope that our trust in God does not lead us to silence when there is a reason to speak up ;D
@coollarem
that is, indeed, a warm comfort bro :D |
| whoops... hahahaha wrong pronoun usage pala ako! hahahaha |
 | if you notice, the epistles center on three things: Jesus, the Gospel, and doctrine. today, are our preachings centered on Jesus, the Gospel, and doctrine? Very good point David. I'd rather see a church focused on what Jesus taught rather than being fixated on gimmicks in pursuti of the ridiculous numbers game.
If you are faithful to God, God will honor that, but the numeric increase is something that God provides, and He may or may not provide it - according to the pleasure of His will. The call should be faithfulness to God, to His Word, and to His gospel, and not to try to "dumb down" the church so the people will find it so cozy (since it's so much like the world they're in) and attractive (because it sounds so much like the world they're used to.) This of course does not mean Christians should be callous and indifferent: but if you got the focus right, it will show. God grants the growth when He calls people to Himself:
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. (Acts 13:48) |
| @jmrocksyou,
I was about to give a scathing reply even if I am not David, then I got to the last part. Hahahaha! |
 | Hi everyone,
I'm new to this blog and living in Australia. I see Daidabc13's comments a lot. I agree with the doctrine but when the people who preach this line so passionately get involved in church here they are so keen to get the message right and get the doctrine right that there is no real fruit. It just becomes a judgemental thing condemning everyone who is not doing it just right. what's missing? is it prayer? can we see real fruit? |
| davidabc13 wrote on Jul 23, '08, edited on Jul 23, '08 hello melbanderson
greetings from the Philippines!
i agree with you, prayer is also quite essential in how we "do church"
actually, i wasn't "harping" about getting the message and doctrine right. rather, i was talking about the reasons we give people for coming and staying in church :D
oh, i sent you a private message as well... i've three friends who are in australia who might need some friends from church :D |
| Hi david,
wooooo your website is scary!!!!
I am in Melbourne ....oh here is your message.... |
| Hi Everyone,
just for your info if anyone is interested....
The stats for Australia concerning youth and young adults leaving the church. These are real figures taken by census...
Pentecostal churches combined
those in the 15 to 24 age group in church in 1996 -- 14% increase until 2006
those in the 25 to 34 age group in church in 1996 -- 23% increase until 2006
Uniting Church - a main line church denomination
those in the 15 to 24 age group in church in 1996 -- 28% decrease until 2006
those in the 25 to 34 age group in church in 1996 -- 10% decrease until 2006
Australia is different to USA, not sure about Philipines???/
Blessings
|
 | on my own personal analysis sir...i take a break from some things i do when i'm...
1. too bored
2. too tired or burn-out
maybe the answer to the #1 reason why young people quit church is to make sure that churches has life. With life in church...i'm sure nobody will get either bored or tired.
Thank you for this blog sir! |
 | pml19 wrote on Jul 23, '08 Looks like we need to be strict in our Four E's so that young people will be interested to come in and know God!!
you are right julius that attitude is the number one factor. we have counteract this, that is why i like this church because they developed strategies in order to culturally IN, that's why people know JESUS and had their personal relationship because we live Christianity. |
| pml19 wrote on Jul 23, '08 Kevin, i read your blog one time regarding Philippine Situation, i feel your concern and its such a blessing to have one like you..i hope you would also consult a Pastor-Anthropologist by the Name of ED LAPIZ,senior pastor of Day by Day Ministries, who broadcasts his preachings in a christian radio station(702 DZAS). |
 | dirkpogi wrote on Jul 23, '08, edited on Jul 23, '08 great message po. BUT ONE THING IS FOR SURE. IF THE YOUTHS WILL HAVE THAT STRONG DESIRE TO BE CLOSE AND INTIMATE WITH GOD, CERTAINLY THEY WILL NOT COMPROMISE. AMIDST OF WHAT THIS DYING WORLD BRINGS, BUT STILL THEY WILL STAND.IF THEY WILL HAVE THAT PASSION IN YEARNING TO GOD, NOT TO THE CHURCH OR PEOPLE OF THE CHURCH, EVEN ITS' PROGRAM THEY WILL DESIRE NOTHING AND NO ONE BUT GOD. BOTTOM LINE: HOW DEEP IS THE YOUTH'S LOVE FOR GOD IS TODAY IN THIS SOON TO BE RISING GENERATION. |
 | Sucha "MUST READ". can i do a link to this? Thanks Ptr. Steve for this very informative blog! =) |
 | read everything, great - i'll sure find a way to share this to the leaders |
 | I leave church after service to get my buffet lunch, is that a valid reason for leaving? |
 | Thanks for the encouragement! I think I've read a few of his articles before--basta, I'm familiar with that name. |
 | hi.. scary but true.. i wonder how EN will reach Scandinavia especially Sweden, Norway and Denmark? the youths in these countries are dropping like flies.. and honestly.. i am not encouraged to go to church either here.. sad part? they just don't feel the warmth.. they feel judged everyday.. and to be honest so do i... i thought ethnicity shouldn't be a problem but i was wrong.. racism within certain churches are actually present.. i was really active back in the Phil.(EN new manila).. and i miss going to church.. but when i actually go to one.. i feel empty instead of filled most of the time.. i think the proper term is 'drained'.. why? uhhh.... but then i have been going to the church despite that fact.. after all we go to church to meet God not just people.. but i am getting tired and well... DRAINED!!!! thank God EN Sweden is on the way!!! (YIPEE!!!)the bad part?? i live in norway!!!! waaahhh!!!! oh well.. once a month in sweden wont hurt,.. huhuhhuh... |
 | thank God I got saved while I was in college. I was 19 yo then and since then, never looked back ,that was almost 25 years ago- discipleship and relationship that made it happen.. |
| was saved during the last few months of my college life.. never looked back. i think that more than all the discipleship stuff, it was the work of the Spirit that ensured my not looking back. whenever i would sin or consider the wrong road, the conviction would grip me hard... it still does... that annoying yet much appreciated conviction from the Holy Spirit. hehehehehehe...
i suppose a good question ptr Steve can ask is "does discipleship guarantee faithfulness to Christ?" |
 | very encouraging blog pastor steve. eyes fixed on Jesus. :) |
 | Having spent more than a year here in the US, in North Carolina in particular, I have observed that most of the people here attend a local Evangelical church but many live lives as if they are unchurched. They see Christianity only as a religion. It's no surprise why the young people want to get out of church. One major component that the church here lacks is DISCIPLESHIP. Please pray for the American church to get back to its senses and turn to God. Also pray that God would send more disciplers here. |
| davidabc13 wrote on Jul 24, '08, edited on Jul 24, '08 i agree, lack of d-ship really does not cut it during the storms. i've been there first-hand, and i thank God for discipleship. however, i won't go as far as saying that discipleship is the reason for why i never turned back to my old life as if it were the main reason... sometimes, i hear people give credit to discipleship more than God's work, in such a way that the glory goes to whoever was that person's leader. because i've also seen people who have gone through the entire process of discipleship in terms of 121, VW, BF, ENLI, SWM, and then fall out. to simplify it, i believe that God uses people in church to prepare us to look to Jesus when the storm comes. so that when the storm has indeed hit our lives, we look to Jesus. if ever the storm comes and we end up looking to people instead of Jesus, we will have missed it. of course, this has to be qualified in the same analogy with "who provides for you? your job? or Jesus through your job?" kind of scenario.
i love your definition, ptr Steve:
if a disciple is a person who follows Christ and fishes for people while carrying a cross, then discipleship is the process of helping someone follow Christ and fish for people while carrying a cross.
i guess my "alarm" goes off when i get the impression that people become more "process-oriented" than Christ-oriented, when the definition of d-ship becomes synonymous to the process. we fix our eyes on Jesus; not on the 4E's, on the style of the preachings, the process of 121, and etc. all these things are the process by which we fix our eyes on Jesus.
i should watch forest gump again, i can't seem to remember the pie scene. hehehehe.
all in all, i do believe in discipleship (your definition) and that the process by which God has given us (121, small groups, etc) are wonderful means that i deeply appreciate and believe to be good avenues by which we point to Jesus, the Bible, and the cross.
thanks for balancing the whole thing and for articulating so clearly what i've been struggling to express. :) |
 | hi pastor steve,
its jun.cc just riding on my wife's email.
dennis ghandi is right. love jesus. loving the church is harder.
i suppose thats why its the 2nd most important COMMAND. love the unlovable church. hehehe
how about steve's top 10 for staying in church;
1. jesus experience
2. the word & the worship
3. people...you know, the right people can really help you STAY...
pastor steve, you are sorely missed in these neck of the woods. come home soon. peace u. |
 | i'm sitting on the steps in the greenhills mall in front of the apple store waiting for my turn to dump my lousy t-mobile and get my iphone/at&t line... doing email and updating blogs while i wait... |
| radio... i don't think i've seen that film... will grab a copy tomorrow. hehehehe
well, i for one am glad that we have such wonderful tools. i mean, really, it's quite convenient and effective. i've seen the fruits. :) |
 | when church is boring .. and irrelevant |
| emphas1s wrote on Jul 25, '08, edited on Jul 25, '08 I personally think that the main reason why people leave church, is because the church doesn't leave the "church" at times...
an evangelism or missions program can only go so far... and as great as tools are, nothing can match the church being the ekklesia or "called out ones" that God intended the church to be and just love on the planets population. Nothng beats the mission of relationship. with God and with others...
"Missions is not the ultimate goal of the church. Worship is. Missions exists because worship doesn’t. Missions begins and ends with Worship." - John Piper |
| talked to a friend who attended church ONCE and decided to never come back. his reason? "bai, weird gyud kaayo sila, magsige ug katawa murag mga buang, unya duulan ka ug pangutanun ngano wala ka nagkatawa parihas nila" that is cebuano dialect which means "dude, they are so weird. they keep laughing like crazy people, then come near you and ask you why you;re not laughing like them." i guess it was one of those "laughing revivals" or "laughing in the spirit" kinda things. i tried inviting him to Victory and his answer was "unsa man trop ninyo? hilak hilak?" in english, "so what's YOUR church's trip? crying?" i assured him that we don't do those things like "laughing" or "crying" or anything like that "in the spirit." our speech, preachings, and conversations are intelligible and far from the religious hype that he experienced. i love his next response. "sige ha, bantay lang bitaw kay hadlok baya gyud kaayo tong una. usa lang gani nga weird diha, bulhut gyud ko sa purtahan!" in english "alright, but you better watch out because the first one really freaked me out. just one weird thing in your church and i'm gonna rush out the door!"
i sure hope he comes this weekend. i guess this friend of mine didn't even quit since he barely even started :) |
 | Thanks Steve for stirring up this amusing exchange - makes me homesick of my Theo class back home. hahaha! At my age, I'm comforted by the fact that my brand of ecclesiology and soteriology (salvation) does not allow the real Christian to "leave church" - because he is the church! How can he leave himself? Of course, he can always leave a church organization (like "Victorious Christ Fellowship" or " I Rebuke You Satan Christian Fellowship" in Novaliches, Quezon Cty) because of the 10 (or more) reasons cited. But such is the nature of an organization - win many, lose some. That's why the teaching about the church as a "spiritual family" is so crucial - the members may move geographically, thus joining another church group, or "cool off" a little (a euphemism for 'backsliding," to use an Armenius lingo) but they are still in the family because "Michael, you never lose a family." ( that's from the widow-mom of Michael Corleone - Al Pacino - in Godfather II.)
|
 | Michael: Fredo, you're my older brother, and I love you. But don't ever take sides with anyone against the Family again. Ever.
|
| i read the list again.
the top 2nd reason is scary indeed. i can understand number 1. but number 2 means that the people leave church because of the church. scary thought. |
 | This is so scary when I think of my niece and nephews that will be facing this soon. Through my oldest nephews eyes I do see #2 as a big factor. He absolutely hates phoneyness in the church and can sense it a mile a way. He also has experienced firsthand "church people" looking down on him because of how he looks-"long-haired skateboarder who loves rock n' roll". As the church we often get stuck in our own little clicks and forget that we are not all the same and "don't have to be". |
 | caramelpark wrote on Jul 29, '08, edited on Jul 30, '08 I can't help but laugh at the length of the replies on this blog. That's how soul stirring it is. Anyway, I praise God for the variety of people we have in our growing church (as the replies show). There're just so many kinds that come in, and it's wonderful to know that there are persons that God has prepared ahead (or are being prepared) to meet these needs. |
 | Sometimes I do think of dropping out....just to get out of the "have to" mode. Came from a religious background where I was taught to just "have to" go to church. Sometimes I wonder if I still have that mentality somewhere.... But then again, I really can't survive without the church. Not for a long time, at least. I really do think the Lord speaks to me through the messages. And eventually I crave the company of my spiritual family. No matter how much of a loner I am. :D |
 | I was 10 yo when i walked the isle to shake the preachers hand and pray the prayer. God was touching my life, but there was no discipleship or vision after that. I lost interest, and stopped attending.
I met some some radical believers at the university when I was 22, but my road was still bumpy for a season. However, there was discipleship and vision that kept me going. |
| caramelpark wrote on Jul 30, '08, edited on Jul 30, '08 talked to a friend who attended church ONCE and decided to never come back. his reason? "bai, weird gyud kaayo sila, magsige ug katawa murag mga buang, unya duulan ka ug pangutanun ngano wala ka nagkatawa parihas nila" that is cebuano dialect which means "dude, they are so weird. they keep laughing like crazy people, then come near you and ask you why you;re not laughing like them." i guess it was one of those "laughing revivals" or "laughing in the spirit" kinda things. i tried inviting him to Victory and his answer was "unsa man trop ninyo? hilak hilak?" in english, "so what's YOUR church's trip? crying?" i assured him that we don't do those things like "laughing" or "crying" or anything like that "in the spirit." our speech, preachings, and conversations are intelligible and far from the religious hype that he experienced. i love his next response. "sige ha, bantay lang bitaw kay hadlok baya gyud kaayo tong una. usa lang gani nga weird diha, bulhut gyud ko sa purtahan!" in english "alright, but you better watch out because the first one really freaked me out. just one weird thing in your church and i'm gonna rush out the door!"
i sure hope he comes this weekend. i guess this friend of mine didn't even quit since he barely even started :) hi david. let's pray that the Spirit of God moves him to stay and seek Jesus more...whatever kind of people he meets.:-) |
Comment deleted at the request of the author.  | Great you said it already. Coz most of the time, I turn "green" on this kind of statement. ^_^ (referring to davidabc13's post)
Bravo! |
 | I just spent two days meeting with Jeff Schadt, Executive Director of Youth Transition Network (www.YouthTransitionNetwork.org and www.LiveAbove.com ) discussing these issues. Jeff has done a great deal of research on the subject and the issues are much deeper than those revealed by the Lifeway Study on which Thom Rainer's book was based.
According to Jeff, unless college freshmen (who were church going high school students) plug in with a local church or campus ministry with 72hrs of arriving on campus they will probably fall away. Without this connection, the loneliness and desire to fit in is so great they these freshmen quickly fall in with the wrong crowd. Subsequently, peer pressure leads them to do things which they swore they would never do and it is the resulting guilt which keeps them away from God.
He has created a ministry (Youth Transition Network www.YouthTransitionNetwork.org) which provides materials to high school students and/or local youth groups (www.LiveAbove.com) to prepare students for the transition to college and to connect them with campus ministries/churches before they arrive on campus. This program was first tested at Arizona State University which saw campus ministry participation almost double after implementing this program.
Students, please check out his website and the video interviews.(www.LiveAbove.com)
I highly recommend ordering his DVD to share with your youth group.
If you are part of a college ministry, I highly recommend you review his materials and perhaps partner with his ministry to help connect with teens before they reach college.
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 | The church has lost focus on what's important. There's too much political commentary and bias, too much sketchy wasteful spending, not enough involvement/volunteering in the community, etc. It needs to get back to basics. And #2 is also something that they desperately need to work on.
Though none of these things will ever change because the church will never recognize itself as the problem. |
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